Any point to an e-tune for CA 91 pump gas on a mostly stock car?

[Clint Beastwood]

currently have dizzy OTS stage 2 with dizzypops

2017 FiST
- 91 octane fuel
- whoosh v2 intercooler
- step colder plugs
- various different intakes (2j, injen, stock w/ drop-in)
- mbrp exhaust (change occasionally - always 3" free flowing)
- turbosmart em vr2 diverter
- stock downpipe

i flip between a stratified ots and my dizzy occasionally - stratified for hooliganism dizzy for daily. I always go back to dizzy because of the strat jerkiness.
recently i fired up the est hp and tq gauges and theres a huge delta between the strat ots numbers and the dizzy ones, but the strat showing a bit of knock.

what im wondering is, with my mostly stock car, will i be likely to benefit much from an etune vs the ots stage 2?

 

[gtx3076]

I plan on e-tuning my stock car on 93 and e30. After my experience with OTS tunes on my ms3 I swore them off, I had severe KR on a few WOT runs with cobbs ots.

I'm going to tune first before any hard part mods. Good to see where the baseline is, anyway.

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[Clint Beastwood]

I plan on e-tuning my stock car on 93 and e30. After my experience with OTS tunes on my ms3 I swore them off, I had severe KR on a few WOT runs with cobbs ots.

I'm going to tune first before any hard part mods. Good to see where the baseline is, anyway.

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Cobb gave me some occasional knock, even with stage 0 - the stratified threw down some monster (estimated) numbers, but got knock at WOT on summer gas (fine on winter gas). The dizzy OTS is all around nice and driveable, an occasional knock on CA 91 summer gas, but it always feels like there's a little somethin' holding it back. Might just be me feeling the tiny stock turbo - I'm not trying to tune to 100% ragged edge, but if the e-tune perks up the top end or sharpens things up it'd probably be worth it.

 

[Dpro]

Cobb gave me some occasional knock, even with stage 0 - the stratified threw down some monster (estimated) numbers, but got knock at WOT on summer gas (fine on winter gas). The dizzy OTS is all around nice and driveable, an occasional knock on CA 91 summer gas, but it always feels like there's a little somethin' holding it back. Might just be me feeling the tiny stock turbo - I'm not trying to tune to 100% ragged edge, but if the e-tune perks up the top end or sharpens things up it'd probably be worth it.

This is why I think ultimately I am not going to buy anymore tunes just save up some cash and buy a S280 Turbo kit and all it a day.

 

[gtx3076]

Cobb gave me some occasional knock, even with stage 0 - the stratified threw down some monster (estimated) numbers, but got knock at WOT on summer gas (fine on winter gas). The dizzy OTS is all around nice and driveable, an occasional knock on CA 91 summer gas, but it always feels like there's a little somethin' holding it back. Might just be me feeling the tiny stock turbo - I'm not trying to tune to 100% ragged edge, but if the e-tune perks up the top end or sharpens things up it'd probably be worth it.

Etuning for me is about safety above all else. They can detect hardware issues from logs that you may not notice driving around. Worth it.

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[danbfree]

Keep in mind, the term is "flash", when you give a Pro Tuner your list of mods and you receive a tune while "OTS" is completely blind, no chance of listing mods for adjustments, like Cobb... And I'm not trying to be a nerd, it's just that there really is a difference...

That said, between bolt ons doing very little for our cars, other than IC upgrade allowing for a more aggressive tune, there really isn't much to be had going all the way to custom if you have a stock turbo. There is a reason Dizzy has only 2 stages for stock turbo cars and Pwnall, a new tuner, has an adjustable tune for any level of bolt ons if running a stock turbo. They may be able to tweak it so that you sacriffice some HP for torque and vice versa, but just not much gains at all overall to be had going fully custom while on a stock turbo.

 

[Mikey456]

Cobb gave me some occasional knock, even with stage 0 - the stratified threw down some monster (estimated) numbers, but got knock at WOT on summer gas (fine on winter gas). The dizzy OTS is all around nice and driveable, an occasional knock on CA 91 summer gas, but it always feels like there's a little somethin' holding it back. Might just be me feeling the tiny stock turbo - I'm not trying to tune to 100% ragged edge, but if the e-tune perks up the top end or sharpens things up it'd probably be worth it.

I’m puzzled that Cobb stage 0 gave you occasional knock. I thought that was a simulated stock tune. If that was the case than our stock (no tune) cars probably knock too, but we just don’t know about it w/o the AP readings.


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[danbfree]

I’m puzzled that Cobb stage 0 gave you occasional knock. I thought that was a simulated stock tune. If that was the case than our stock (no tune) cars probably knock too, but we just don’t know about it w/o the AP readings.

Low RPM part throttle knock is normal on pump, it's always WOT knock that's not good....

 

[Dpro]

Keep in mind, the term is "flash", when you give a Pro Tuner your list of mods and you receive a tune while "OTS" is completely blind, no chance of listing mods for adjustments, like Cobb... And I'm not trying to be a nerd, it's just that there really is a difference...

That said, between bolt ons doing very little for our cars, other than IC upgrade allowing for a more aggressive tune, there really isn't much to be had going all the way to custom if you have a stock turbo. There is a reason Dizzy has only 2 stages for stock turbo cars and Pwnall, a new tuner, has an adjustable tune for any level of bolt ons if running a stock turbo. They may be able to tweak it so that you sacriffice some HP for torque and vice versa, but just not much gains at all overall to be had going fully custom while on a stock turbo.

Which is exactly why I decided to change out the Turbo down the road. While tunes make the car quicker it still does not give me what I would like.
Nothing against tunes its nice you can extra a little more out of the stock setup. But really if you want your car to go a Hybrid or BT is really the only answer.
Otherwise it will be a bit quicker but still slow car. Again I bought the car based off the stock power its just with Turbo cars there is a bug its called the boost bug. Once you get used to the stock boost and power most want more. Seen it on all the Turbo cars I have owned and the platforms it happens to a high percentage of people. Lol
I have the boost bug.

 

[Se7eN]

currently have dizzy OTS stage 2 with dizzypops
what im wondering is, with my mostly stock car, will i be likely to benefit much from an etune vs the ots stage 2?

Mostly stock and custom tune will benefit the ride and feel of the car. Granted you will only see minor HP gains, probably see a bit more of a gain in torque but the car is bound to feel better and faster.

Example: my car dynoed 212whp and 277wtq on the OTS stage 3 tune but was not consistent. Had knock from time to time and didn't always feel that good. Went to a custom tune from Tune+ car got to 217whp and 289wtq. Virtually 0 Knock except for very rare ocassions, and the gas in this area sucks balls. The car even though it didn't gain much, was still much faster and responded a lot better.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I’m puzzled that Cobb stage 0 gave you occasional knock. I thought that was a simulated stock tune. If that was the case than our stock (no tune) cars probably knock too, but we just don’t know about it w/o the AP readings.


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It was spurious part-throttle knock at stage zero, which is apparently pretty normal. Goes away with a gallon of e85 in the tank. Just crappy California summer gas.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Mostly stock and custom tune will benefit the ride and feel of the car. Granted you will only see minor HP gains, probably see a bit more of a gain in torque but the car is bound to feel better and faster.

Example: my car dynoed 212whp and 277wtq on the OTS stage 3 tune but was not consistent. Had knock from time to time and didn't always feel that good. Went to a custom tune from Tune+ car got to 217whp and 289wtq. Virtually 0 Knock except for very rare ocassions, and the gas in this area sucks balls. The car even though it didn't gain much, was still much faster and responded a lot better.

Oh for sure - I originally bought the tune just to get rid of rev hang and remap throttle, but figured if they send a tune based on mods I might as well do some before ordering a tune

I haven’t done a real dyno, just played with the est hp/tq gauges. It stays pretty constant from one tune to the next so it must be useful to at least get an idea of differences. The dizzy delivers the goods a little under what the Cobb ots s2 does, but smoother. The stratified feels a lot stronger (partly because of aggressive low down power) but it still pulls harder at the top, which is indicated by 20+ hp more and over 30tq more.

Just curious about the potential benefit - I’m not cost conscious but I am *value* conscious.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Which is exactly why I decided to change out the Turbo down the road. While tunes make the car quicker it still does not give me what I would like.
Nothing against tunes its nice you can extra a little more out of the stock setup. But really if you want your car to go a Hybrid or BT is really the only answer.
Otherwise it will be a bit quicker but still slow car. Again I bought the car based off the stock power its just with Turbo cars there is a bug its called the boost bug. Once you get used to the stock boost and power most want more. Seen it on all the Turbo cars I have owned and the platforms it happens to a high percentage of people. Lol
I have the boost bug.

Yeah I’m just looking for what I’d call OEM “plus” - not racing or getting crazy, just wanna giggle on the way to work and whatnot.

Dizzy’s great for a daily but if an etune sharpens it up and adds a little drama then maybe I’ll do it.

 

[Dpro]

Yeah I’m just looking for what I’d call OEM “plus” - not racing or getting crazy, just wanna giggle on the way to work and whatnot.

Dizzy’s great for a daily but if an etune sharpens it up and adds a little drama then maybe I’ll do it.

Have you gone e30, supposedly that gives the extra edge but it seriously dumps gas mileage. I know Booster has a Stratified E30 and when we ran Crest he was out of gas a good 30 miles or more before my light came on.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Have you gone e30, supposedly that gives the extra edge but it seriously dumps gas mileage. I know Booster has a Stratified E30 and when we ran Crest he was out of gas a good 30 miles or more before my light came on.

I tried it once and it was neat but felt like declaring war on tires. Wasn’t worth the hassle of constantly sampling e85 and mixing just to use for commuting. Much happier adding 1.5 gallons of e85 every few tanks of gas. If the FiST was just for weekends I’d be more into the e85, but as-is is probably forget I was on e30 tune and put n normal 91 and blow something up.

 

[Dpro]

I tried it once and it was neat but felt like declaring war on tires. Wasn’t worth the hassle of constantly sampling e85 and mixing just to use for commuting. Much happier adding 1.5 gallons of e85 every few tanks of gas. If the FiST was just for weekends I’d be more into the e85, but as-is is probably forget I was on e30 tune and put n normal 91 and blow something up.

Ya I feel you there. Its one of the many reasons I am probably not going to do a E30 tune. The other is what I stated above, I have just realized that spending a $100 here $100 there for tunes is kinda of a waste when I can change it out my Turbo and see real gains. I just want the car to be fast so I can knock the socks of people not expecting it and keep with the more powerful cars in the straights as the corners are not a problem.

 

[danbfree]

I can't say much about testing e30, it's 88% year round at the one place I have around me that's also expensive, but I still do it nearly every tank now.... When I drive down to Cali, instead of testing I just use an extra gallon, which is 100% safe but less mileage, which is a given. At around exactly 30% ethanol, it's only about a 10% difference at most, when you move up to e40, which is totally safe on an e30 tune, you notice even worse mileage. What's interesting is that for round trips, if going 75-80 MPH I'll get the same 30-31 MPG's as pump as it takes less throttle to maintain your speed against the wind resistance.

 

[HBEcoBeaST]

I run E30 on stock motor minus my intake. I love it. The power is mostly in the low rpms torque shove which is perfect for my style of driving. I love jamming around between 20-60mph in 3rd or 4th. I rarely get anywhere near redline as this car's motor runs out of steam up top and speeding tickets...

Having raced FBO stock turbo fists running 91 tunes it's not even close. From the launch and spool time alone they are behind me.

After upgrading to powerflex inserts the low down power is much more manageable to the point it feels slower if that makes sense. Hoping my coilovers don't amplify this.

With a standard off the shelf tune I don't worry about exact ethanol percentages. My tank empty light comes on, I fill with ~$10 worth of e85 (3.3-3.5gal) and the rest with 91. Been doing so for over a year no issues. If I run my tank almost dry I add closer to 4gal. I bombarded stratified with e blend questions and they told me their ots tunes compensate for e15-e40 and will always shoot for safe afrs.

Our fuel pump run out of flow past e40-e50 so I'm not too worried about over mixing.

Stratified linear throttle with no high tq option is the tune I'd upgrade to. I'm running strats old tune and I love it, but I'd consider it aggressive. Still have over 20k miles on my Indy 500s though and they aren't bald.

You do take an mpg hit but e85 is over a dollar cheaper than premium at Chevron. Blending a little more e85 helps combat summer gas.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I run E30 on stock motor minus my intake. I love it. The power is mostly in the low rpms torque shove which is perfect for my style of driving. I love jamming around between 20-60mph in 3rd or 4th. I rarely get anywhere near redline as this car's motor runs out of steam up top and speeding tickets...

Having raced FBO stock turbo fists running 91 tunes it's not even close. From the launch and spool time alone they are behind me.

After upgrading to powerflex inserts the low down power is much more manageable to the point it feels slower if that makes sense. Hoping my coilovers don't amplify this.

With a standard off the shelf tune I don't worry about exact ethanol percentages. My tank empty light comes on, I fill with ~$10 worth of e85 (3.3-3.5gal) and the rest with 91. Been doing so for over a year no issues. If I run my tank almost dry I add closer to 4gal. I bombarded stratified with e blend questions and they told me their ots tunes compensate for e15-e40 and will always shoot for safe afrs.

Our fuel pump run out of flow past e40-e50 so I'm not too worried about over mixing.

Stratified linear throttle with no high tq option is the tune I'd upgrade to. I'm running strats old tune and I love it, but I'd consider it aggressive. Still have over 20k miles on my Indy 500s though and they aren't bald.

You do take an mpg hit but e85 is over a dollar cheaper than premium at Chevron. Blending a little more e85 helps combat summer gas.

I found a couple stations with e85 near me, but they're generally shady stations and I kid you not, there's almost always a prius parked at the e85 pump filling with 87, then going into the quik-e-mart, then dawdling so it takes ~30 minutes to get e85 vs. 5 minutes to fill with 91. If I hit the station and the e85 pump is open I throw a gallon or so in then 91. PRIUS BRO - YOU CAN VAPE IN YOUR ECO RIDE, NO NEED TO STAND NEXT TO THE PUMP DOING IT!

Do you really not bother measuring your e85 %? I'm too paranoid for that lol, I'm too detail oriented for that, I try to look up torque specs for every fastener on the car, obsessively make sure I'm in adherence to specs with my work stuff, etc. Once my warranty is up maybe I'll get an ethanol gauge.

Right now I'm back on stock tune for a couple weeks before I head to dealer. My car's making the whirring sound when rolling to a stop that resulted in new axles/seals last time. Whenever I'm back on stock tune it's nice to not be looking at the AP to check knock, corrections, etc. - but MAN the rev hang and soggy throttle are bleaaurghghg. I'm pretty sure one of my top mounts (or both) is/are gone, but the dealership keeps saying they checked 'em and they're fine. My dealer's generally great because I've brought them a bunch of business (introduced a fleet purchaser to their sales manager) but for some reason on the mounts they are more... conservative.

 

[gtx3076]

I think I used to do a 2-1 ratio on my ms3. I don't know if these cars are more sensitive, but I never knew the percentage of E in my tank, just kept to my ratios and when in doubt, added more E. I see ethanol gauges and wonder if it's really worthwhile buying.

Never had issues with KR, but injector duty cycle (IDC) in the winter time would be at 110% at WOT and would be the only time I had issues with the fuel system keeping up.

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